Calming the waters of the South China Sea and beyond


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Lyle Goldstein, an associate professor in the China Maritime Studies Institute at the U.S. Naval War College, discusses his book and using "cooperation spirals" to ease tensions between China and the United States.

This episode, Jeremy and Kaiser head to the U.S. Naval War College in Newport, Rhode Island, to speak with Professor Lyle Goldstein, the author of Meeting China Halfway: How to Defuse the Emerging US-China Rivalry. Lyle discusses how the United States could accommodate China’s rise without sacrificing American interests by using “cooperation spirals,” the opposite of an escalation spiral. His ideas are sure to surprise those who believe everyone connected to the U.S. military is a hawk.

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Jeremy: America’s War for the Greater Middle East: A Military History by Andrew J. Bacevich

China vs. USA: Empires at War (2007) directed by Anthony Dufour, on Youtube and Amazon Prime

Lyle: The Sand Pebbles by Richard McKenna

Kaiser: The Three Body Trilogy by Liu Cixin:

The Three-Body Problem translated by Ken Liu

The Dark Forest translated by Joel Martinsen

Death’s End translated by Ken Liu